Hypergrid Business - Latest Comments

Re: Rec Room shuts down after decade and 150 million players

Yamin — Fri, 05 Jun 2026 02:47:46 -0000

you can still play but only if you were already logged in

Re: The platform that refused to die

Snoots Dwagon — Fri, 15 May 2026 20:15:41 -0000

This article echoes my thoughts about the Opensim platform. That Koni tried these things and it caught her interest is saying something. She has always been forward-looking toward "what can be done" other than standard everyday virtual world activities.

Virtual worlds are fine. They can be fun. But there are only so many DJ parties I can handle (well really, very few at all). It can be fun creating a region / VAR / virtual world... but really, what is the long-term benefit? Second Life was once a highly creative platform, and creators gathered there. Opensim vastly extended that by eliminating the severe restrictions found on Second Life. Instead of limited prim counts and severe link limits, building limits are pretty much non-existent on Opensim.

Sadly, most of that communal creativity died both on SL and Open Sim when mesh was introduced without an in-world mesh editor. Personally, I didn't join SL or Opensim so I could sit in front of my computer alone with my head buried in Blender. For me the creative experience was communal. That community changed to what is now a virtual party zone... because people no longer create in-world (at least, not like we once did). Linden Lab took a highly creative community off-world and sent that community to Blender. I consider this business insanity. I like mesh as much as anyone. But I want to make that mesh in-world, among my virtual friends.

So if that's not working, what can we do? Think outside the box and make Opensim truly valuable. In the article he mentioned using it to create interactive architecture. That is something that makes a great deal of sense. In doing so we aren't just creating a virtual world; we're creating a real world using a virtual preview. Opensim is perfect for this.

Can Opensim physics be used to test RL physic questions? What can Opensim-- with its "more powerful than SL" land and building tools-- be used for other than hosting virtual parties? Some people have used it to create realistic virtual museums. With A.I. added to the mix, one could create museum guides. EDUCATION has used these worlds for years to provide visual explanation of difficult-to-understand concepts.

Remember the ancient computer game of LIFE... where artificial colonies were created to see which ones survived and which ones didn't? That was on a 2D palette. What if we extend that concept to 3D worlds with physics? Can Opensim be used to assist in a RL project we're working on? It can be used to visibly and audibly teach complex subjects, assisting teachers and giving them a bit of a break from their hectic schedule while still holding to excellent teaching methodology.

Personally, I really don't have the vision to imagine all the things Opensim can be used to accomplish. But I know one thing it has accomplished: Yesterday someone on Second Life told me he'd visited ElvensSong on Opensim, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.* That is exactly what ElvenSong was intended to do: give people a break from their stressful day. At ground level they can enjoy a peaceful, serene fantasy-based world or visit the Elf Clan Museum. In high sky Replicant City they can take part in the fully-interactive science fiction environment there, or laugh their cares away by visiting the Hall of Funny. It's more than a virtual world; it is a de-stressing station... with a bit of history thrown in for those who want to see a bit of our group's past.

I agree that Opensim is far from dead. The question is in how we use it. If we use it simply as a social network, that's okay. For some people their virtual life is the only socialization they have. For others-- Opensim can be used for so much more.

* ElvenSong is a hypergrid-based micro-grid, and its high-sky "sister region" Replicant City are both fully-interactive "tourist" creations. We have no members, don't rent land, have no merchants, have no financial goal or special function other than to just give visitors a place to walk around, explore, relax, and interact with the environment. Unburdened with the financial concerns of Second Life (I run ElvenSong on a laptop sitting in my living room for the cost of electricity)... I use Opensim to provide people a virtual playground where they can simply take a bit to relax from their daily lives. That may not seem like much, but for those who visit from time to time, it's a haven away from the mad world surrounding us. That haven is why I keep it going. I am glad Opensim allows me to do so... because the extreme expense and limitations of Second Life does not allow me to achieve such goals.

Re: The platform that refused to die

Koni Lanzius — Mon, 11 May 2026 00:58:08 -0000

Hi Fabio! I stopped by ThinkSim and wow! what a brilliant idea to have 3D mesh creation! Your cool 3d creator actually created a couple things for me and I am thrilled! I couldn't rez them on my VAR, but I will try to troubleshoot why.

I wasn't able to register for the certificate, either. I will stop by again when your techs have a chance to repair the things. Will the 3d printer ever be available to builders in world? man, that would rock! Please let me know if I can help out in any way.

Re: Meta kills its VR metaverse after $84 billion in losses

Frank — Sat, 09 May 2026 10:45:22 -0000

This was ZERo loss to the gaming and Vr community bc meta trails behind with actual tech. They just offer cheap toys to kids who get online to be groomed and told what to think. This a win with Meta leaving for all actual gaming developers. Vive, steam… everyone makes better VR and AR.

Re: What Mark Zuckerberg’s metaverse U-turn means for the future of virtual reality

Kimm Starr — Sat, 02 May 2026 03:04:24 -0000

Every time I saw an ad for Zuck’s “metaverse,” on Facebook, I laughed, and then defiantly dropped a Kitely link in the comments. The metaverse isn’t new. It’s been around for over 20 years, and it's awesome.

I got into it in 2007 after watching an episode of CSI: NY that pointed to Second Life as a real, active virtual world. I went straight to my computer and signed up. That's the kind of nerd I am!

At the time, I was in my late 30s and going out a lot, so it was just a side thing. But as a real-world artist, building and texturing came naturally. I’d come back to it off and on, especially during long NYC winters.

Then COVID hit, and OpenSim became a major outlet for me, creatively and socially.

Now I’m more of a homebody, and this fits. I’d rather build, create, and connect with people around the world than go out to a bar.

If Zuck had really looked at what was already here, especially Second Life and OpenSim, he might’ve come in with a better read on what a metaverse actually is.

Re: Meet3D founder returns with AI-powered OpenSim grid

Kimm Starr — Sat, 02 May 2026 02:20:50 -0000

Well, now I'm intrigued. I'm heading over there to check it out.

Re: OpenSim builders get new one-prim NPC manager — no scripts, no orphans

Kimm Starr — Sat, 02 May 2026 02:00:42 -0000

I'm a big fan of Spax Orion, he's inspired me through the years! One word: Dismayland!!! Love that he released so much of his past work to the community, I grabbed everything! Shout out to Spax: If you ever want to collaborate one day. My brain, too, is held together with sarcasm and dark humor! We could come up with something sick!

Re: The platform that refused to die

Kimm Starr — Sat, 02 May 2026 01:42:40 -0000

OpenSim isn’t dead. It was just evolving while people weren’t paying attention. Some seriously next-level work is happening right now, and AI is pushing it even further. Looking forward to you spilling the tea!

Re: Why I still build with prims in a mesh-driven metaverse

J. — Thu, 16 Apr 2026 16:19:08 -0000

This point I completely agree with. This insight should be shared with LL (if they'll listen). Even now it is not too late.

Re: OpenSim April stats down on grid outage

Hyacinth Jean Landry — Thu, 16 Apr 2026 13:39:31 -0000

It kind of blows my mind that GroovyVerse has been hovering at #5 or 6. We're not even marketing or trying... just a bunch of hippies doing our thing. :)

Re: Rec Room shuts down after decade and 150 million players

Snoots Dwagon — Thu, 16 Apr 2026 11:36:14 -0000

You are indeed correct that a lot of companies are formed this way. When I took a specialized Certified Entrepreneur course in college (scored straight A's... brag brag ;D )... they taught us differently. Create an official business plan (the kind you'd need if you were going to the bank to ask for a huge loan). Ask yourself, "Would I buy this product if I were the customer?" Get market consensus before investment. Calculate the costs to the best degree possible. Determine if there is a clear profit method (or two or three). Create a Plan A, and also two alternative plans in case Plan A fails. Be smart. Don't jump into a pond with both feet before checking for alligators and snakes. Above all ask the important questions: What if something goes wrong? What might happen that we currently aren't predicting? What do we do in the worst case scenario (rather than shutting down and declaring bankruptcy)?

That class was extremely valuable, and helped me run my own international software business for over 3 decades. It helped me work as a business consultant during that time-- helping businesses to learn those very concepts that I'd learned in college. $19 billion loss in one year? Someone didn't do their homework. : {

In this case, perhaps they should have started small and run a test market before scaling. Hard to say since we don't know the actual process involved but gah... $19 billion loss? And that's just in one year.

Re: Rec Room shuts down after decade and 150 million players

Maria Korolov — Thu, 16 Apr 2026 09:23:50 -0000

Snoots --

I think most companies are founded on the idea that the founders want to solve a problem that people have, and then worry about the profitability later. Step one is to figure out -- is this a real issue that people are worried about? Step two -- do we have a solution that people actually want? Step three -- how much are people willing to pay for it, and how much of a market is there for it? Often, you can't know these things until you're actually in it and doing it..

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting a company before you have everything planned out 100%. Plus, even if you do -- no business plan ever survives contact with actual customers! Everyone has to pivot!

Sometimes, that means pivoting to a different kind of business.

Re: Meta kills its VR metaverse after $84 billion in losses

Snoots Dwagon — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 23:27:25 -0000

I run a DreamGrid land, ELVENSONG, on a laptop in my living room. There's no lag. Copilot A.I. analyzed my grid and stated I have PLENTY of bandwidth to run a standard grid just using my regular ISP company. So aside from the cost of the laptop (which I bought used from a friend) and my Internet fee (which I would have been paying anyway), I figure my cost to run ElvenSong is maybe 2 bucks a month in electricity. (I've never actually calculated it.) ElvenSong is 25 regions and 90,000 prims in size.

Of course it's a microgrid with only 2 members, but as we all know, Opensim is scalable. REALLY scalable. Costs don't dramatically increase because a person adds 20 more regions. The regions pay for themselves, so whether it's 25 regions, 200 or 2000... one would have to be "not a business person" (saying this politely) to have a grid die.

The achilles heel is asset servers and backup. Those can get really big, really fast, and at this time I know of no solution to that except the one I came up with: I have two managing residents on my grid and everything else is set up to accommodate visitors. No land rentals. No shops. No hassles. The land is one huge self-guided tour zone in which pretty much everything is interractive. Grab a friend, come visit, have fun. My involvement in management: I have to reset the grid when my electricity goes out, because for some reason my Dreamgrid installation doesn't auto-reboot itself when the Internet goes down. The laptop stays on, because it's battery operated. ElvenSong stays up because the laptop is on. But somehow it loses connection with the Net. No idea why. Other than that, it just hums along.

I can't even imagine 19 billion dollars in losses in one year. My reaction to that: the guy is an idiot that doesn't have the common sense to run a business. This is reinforced when someone sends me a link to their webpage on Facebook... and I can't view it because Facebook blocks anyone who isn't a member... even if they have an invitation. Idiot.

I am really, really glad I retired from the rat race at 48. I highly recommend it. Time and relaxation and getting away from the stress of corporate life has no monetary equivalent. For a certainty it beats losing $19 billion a year.

Re: Rec Room shuts down after decade and 150 million players

Snoots Dwagon — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 23:02:06 -0000

There is indeed a difference between opening a tech company and running a business. If they "couldn't figure out a way" to make the company profitable, it occurs to me that maybe they shouldn't have gone into business in the first place.

"Foolish is the man who starts building a tower without first calculating its expense."

Re: OpenSim April stats down on grid outage

Snoots Dwagon — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 22:30:18 -0000

I first wish to say that I am thrilled that Kitely has increased its performance speed, as this was an issue I was aware of with a couple of major lands in the past. This was a head scratcher because Ilan and Oren are the best of the best, but there was that odd "lag" that came out of nowhere. A 50% speed increase will overcome that issue, as well as their continuing technical expertise. (A lot of people aren't ware of it, but Kitely is responsible for the increase of speed in texture loading ranging from 15x to 30x faster than it used to be... and they freely shared that discovery with Firestorm, which implemented their bottleneck fixes with haste. So we can thank Kitely for that.)

Regarding THINKSIM introducing mesh generation in-world... this I have got to see. Because many people aren't aware of what an incredible disservice Linden Lab did to the virtual community when they introduced mesh without an in-world mesh generator. Prior to mesh, Second Life was a highly-creative builders community. Any time of the day people could visit local sandboxes to see famed, best-of-the-best builders creating things live, in-world. They would share their building "secrets", answer questions, trade prim shapes and knowledge. That environment is what attracted tens of thousands of people to Second Life. Then Linden Lab introduced mesh, with no in-world mesh editor. THUD.

The result: the finest creators shut down their lands because they no longer needed land to create. They no longer built in-world. Instead, they were seldom found in-world because they were spending hours and hours in BLENDER. Yes troops, Linden Lab sent the best and brightest off-world to BLENDER, to build by themselves, no longer sharing secrets and tricks and tips, no longer enjoying the community that Second Life once offered the builder community. And why is that? Because Linden Lab didn't understand the sense of adding basic mesh shapes to the editing system. It wouldn't have taken much: a sphere with various numbers of "pull points". A mesh cube with between 1 and 16 points per side. The same with a cylinder, a torus. It wouldn't have taken much to keep the building community alive and thriving, and SL burning with creativity.

Now some will say, "But there's LOTS of creativity on SL! I love mesh items!" I love mesh items too. My Dinkie Dwagons are mesh. But the creativity isn't "on SL". It is in Blender, and then imported at a cost. Because of this a lot of creators build off world, in Blender and then take their creations to OPENSIM of all places... because uploads on Opensim are FREE. They test and work out all the kinks of the items on Second Life's chief competitor before finally uploading them to SL. Now there's Linden Lab marketing brilliance for you: send your best creators either off world or to your major competition instead of giving them tools to work with in-world.

It's a debate to be sure, but ThinkSim offering mesh-making tools in-world?

This I am going to have to check out first-hand. ;D

The URL btw is: https://thinksim.space/ ... but at this time I couldn't get the grid to register with Firestorm.

Re: Meet3D founder returns with AI-powered OpenSim grid

Khwan — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:11:52 -0000

Top 👍🏼

Re: Meta kills its VR metaverse after $84 billion in losses

dahlia — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 22:16:29 -0000

What will they change the name to next? Whatever it is, I bet the letters A and I will figure prominantly.

Re: Why I still build with prims in a mesh-driven metaverse

Snoots Dwagon — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 17:48:39 -0000

Yeah Maria. I used to stand in our group's sandbox and build for hours, talking with friends while doing so, comparing notes, teaching newbies how to build. Was a lotta fun. These days I very rarely build-- only when I need something specific and can't procure it. I really miss the creative community of early SL... and being part of it.

Re: Why I still build with prims in a mesh-driven metaverse

Maria Korolov — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 12:08:31 -0000

In-world building is probably my favorite thing about SL/OpenSim.

Re: Why I still build with prims in a mesh-driven metaverse

Snoots Dwagon — Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:15 -0000

Linden Lab really shot themselves in both feet when they released mesh with no in-world mesh creator. Don't get me wrong; I love mesh. My dwagons are mesh. Many of my purchased avatars are mesh (especially my wondrous Valorian Dragon).

However before mesh, Second Life had a vibrant and profitable builder community. Creators actually owned land so they would have room to build, or joined groups with large sandboxes. People could stand around and watch them build, gain tips, trade building information. There were Speed Build contests, week long build contests, and building exhibits. SL was a creator / builder community... and it drew in a LOT of people who had a desire to exercise their creativity with the prim editor. It was just plain addictive. And EVERYWHERE you looked, you knew if you saw something amazing... it was all prims. Whoever made it really knew their stuff.

Then mesh came in, and Linden Lab very unwisely did not include a basic mesh editor in-world. We didn't need a lot. Adding some mesh shapes and drag points to the existing prim builder would have been sufficient. A way to join meshes and eliminate joining sides would have been enough. But instead, Linden Lab sent their very active and very lucrative builder community OFF WORLD into the arms of BLENDER and similar programs.

What was the result? many builders shut down their lands, no longer needing them to create. They left builder groups because now all their building is done solo, off-world, with ZERO COMMUNITY. As pointed out in the article above, people stopped buying prim items, no matter how low-prim or high-quality they might be. The day of the Builder was over, and it gave way to the age of the Offline Mesh Wizard. Yes, mesh can be beautiful. But why send mesh creation off world? What were they thinking?

A Linden told me, "We just found it unnecessary to re-invent the wheel. Blender and other programs were already out there." What LL didn't realize is that RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL is what Second life is all about. This isn't First Life. It's Second Life. The entire concept is "re-inventing the wheel" as we create our own worlds on a virtual platform. If we didn't want to re-invent the wheel, we'd just do Real Life, right?

Was it Linden Lab's goal to send their most active users OFF WORLD to be creative? * derp *

If we look at the statistics of SL today, sim count is way down. User count is down. These days instead of people building their own lands and having fun CREATING something, they either upload a mesh model from some website, or they buy a mesh item off of SL Marketplace and just plop it down on their land. It's mesh, so modifying abilities are minimal. It's difficult to zoom in on the item because the "surface" is intangible to the zoom system. (Try to zoom on a mesh item and you'll often zoom to the item behind it.) Try to look at someone's avatar using zoom-look and it's like trying to grab oil. Trying to rez an item on a mesh surface is currently nearly impossible (verified by LL themselves). Why? Because the 'rezzing surface' isn't where it appears to be. (go figure)

So yes, yet another great idea, terrible implementation "feature" from Second life. As a result, SL has turned from a creators / builders playground into a DJ dance / Party zone... and many of the old events have closed down. Building contests aren't totally gone, but have largely been replaced by horse trail rides (which I love), games, and other non-creative activities. The day of the "in-world creator" is all but dead.

SL regions and population have dropped dramatically, because people just aren't as interested any more. Creativity had a huge drawing power for Second Life... and now that creativity has been sent off world to Blender. If people wanted to spend hours with their nose in blender, they could just as easily read a book or watch Netflix. SL has always been about community... and these days that community is not in the field of building and creating.

When is LL ever gonna learn? It's not enough to introduce a new "feature". It's not enough to be visionary. Smart implementation is the name of the game. Looking into the future and foreseeing the consequences of corporate actions is what will influence the population... and thus the bottom line. Refusing to have an in-world mesh-creator was just plain bad business management.

Re: Linden Lab quietly opens adult hub in Second Life

Maria Korolov — Sun, 15 Mar 2026 19:44:18 -0000

Thanks for the update! I'll make the correction!

Re: OpenSim users up, but land area down on OSgrid cleanup

Snoots Dwagon — Sat, 28 Feb 2026 07:28:58 -0000

Thanks Ilan, that explains a lot. It also verifies why stats pages like this are of little practical use. The way Opensim operates, there are just too many variables on what constitutes a region. You spoke of stored sims still being counted as regions, even though no one but the grid owner can access them. You also mentioned "zombie regions" (which most of us are already aware of. Even Linden Lab does that.) so with all these variances and variables... it simply becomes difficult if not impossible to properly track Opensim growth or decline.

You stated there is a drop in people willing to pay for land; I have noticed this myself and feel sorry for grid owners such as yourself who are working hard, but seeing their market declining. The only solution to that is to bring in "new blood"... people who will invest in virtual worlds and build new things. The old-timers are doing exactly what I've done: setting up their own micro-grids or setting up a server and tying in to OSgrid.

I wonder if for-profit grids like Kitely could benefit from this concept and re-structure your offerings. Some people may be able to set up a server, but may need a reliable host company. If Kitely could offer low-cost asset server functions that wouldn't require having a region online... people could "tie in" to Kitely as they do OSgrid, have a more stable environment, have guarantee of a grid that won't go offline, and Kitely might regain some of that lost business (as well as claim new customers). You could even offer an Opensim 'setup package' that helps people create their own servers in the first place. I don't know all the technical ins and outs of that... but it may be worth a thought. You and Oren would better know.

Thanks for explaining how Kitely operates-- because it helps explain how all grids operate in one way or another. It also explains variances in the stats above (I do have to admit wondering about some of the incredibly high "stats" we see in the charts above. They just do not seem realistic.) You've helped clear up some of that confusion by providing inside operation information. Much appreciated!

Re: OpenSim users up, but land area down on OSgrid cleanup

Ilan Tochner — Sat, 28 Feb 2026 01:50:23 -0000

If a Kitely user created a world then that world continues to exist until it either gets deleted by that user or Kitely deletes it for lack of payment. Some of the worlds are grandfathered Premium Worlds that are very cheap for people to maintain, some of them are Stored Worlds, where we provide 1 region per user for free, and some of them are worlds that are on one of our fixed-price world options. All of those worlds are still part of the Kitely grid and can be entered with the same ease. Oren and I can simply teleport into Stored Worlds as well, they are just access restricted to other people because no one is paying us to keep them active.

Look at OSgrid regions, where they periodically clean up regions, I don't have their stats but considering the frequency this happens it's likely that there are a lot of regions on their map that are no longer available. A great majority of OSgrid regions are also access restricted using land permissions, so only the person who is hosting them can enter them (which is like Stored Worlds on Kitely being only accessible by Kitely's owners).

My guess is that a lot of regions on publicly accessible grids are zombie regions. They were abandoned by the people who paid for them and the grid owners didn't want to delete them so their grids' land mass wouldn't shrink.

I won't out other commercial grid owners I've talked to but there has been a big reduction in people's willingness to pay for land over the past two years. That reduction has negatively affected all the commercial grid owners I've discussed this with. I won't fault them how they report their stats but I agree with your original claim that the stats listed here are not reflective of actual grid usage.

Re: OpenSim users up, but land area down on OSgrid cleanup

Snoots Dwagon — Sat, 28 Feb 2026 01:31:04 -0000

While we're at it here... I don't wanna be a bad dwagon nor seem like I'm accusing anyone of anything. But I can't help but question the WOLF TERRITORIES stats... simply because those stats are so incredibly higher than any other Opensim grid: 33,497 regions and 11,896 active users? Both figures ring in much larger than OSgrid and considerably larger than any other Opensim grid. Such stats can't help but hit the curiosity bell.

When we see stats so large that they skew the norm... it is only rational to question the validity of the stats.

If those stats are validated... then I'd be curious as to what Wolf Territories is doing that everyone else seems to be getting wrong.

Re: OpenSim users up, but land area down on OSgrid cleanup

Snoots Dwagon — Sat, 28 Feb 2026 01:20:57 -0000

What I don't get (and maybe this isn't the place to discuss it. If so just lemme know and we talk on Kitely): How can a grid have 15,728 worlds (not regions, worlds), but less than 400 active members? It would seem you should have thousands of active members. /me scratches my head. I don't doubt the figures themselves. I'm curious about the "WOT?" ;D